Transcript of Q&A of Senator Risa Hontiveros at the Manila Bay reclamation hearing

PHILIPPINES, September 27 - Press Release
September 27, 2023

Transcript of Q&A of Senator Risa Hontiveros at the Manila Bay reclamation hearing

Senator Risa Hontiveros (SRH): I'd like to ask about the Chinese involvement, sa PRA po.

Atty Literal, PRA: The involvement of the Chinese contractor is on the side of the contractual joint venture between the LGU of Manila and its partner, which is Waterfront Premier Development Corporation. The contractor of Waterfront, it's a subsidiary of the CCCC, this is China First Highways Engineering Corporation, Madame Chair.

SRH: Gayunpaman, Atty. Literal, kahit sa opinyon nalang po ng PRA, hindi po ba tayo concerned na yung Chinese state-owned contractor na gumagawa ng reclamation work sa Manila Bay, dahil kayo naman ang Philippine Reclamation Authority, baka may opinyon kayo dito, hindi po ba tayo concerned na yun ay may ties sa Chinese company na tinutulungan ang Tsina imilitarize ang West Philippine Sea, dahil po sa artificial islands na cinonstruct nitong kumpanyang ito, yung Chinese Coast Guard at yung People's Liberation Army Navy tuloy ay nahaharras nila, halos nonstop yung mga Philippine vessels. So concerned po ba yung PRA doon?

Atty. Literal: Actually we're concerned because of these issues which happened lately. But first even before we allowed the operations of these contractors from China, we required these contractors to secure a special permit under the rules of the Marina and as submitted to us since we are the one evaluating this permit. They have submitted a clearance from the Coast Guard, from the Marina, and also, during that time, Madame Senator, an endorsement from the National Security Council. So during that time, actually Maam, hindi naging issue unlike nitong when they were already undertaking na nagkaroon na ng isyu, nung naraise na po ito ng US Embassy and yung sa World Bank blacklisting of CCCC.

So moving forward, siguro kasi nandito na po yun, so we're doing risk management on the part and also naman nakasuspend po siya but prospectively, these areas should be considered as part of the requirements of PRA.

SRH: So sir kelan po sila nakapagsubmit sa inyo ng mga dokumento o permit galing sa Marina Coast Guard at NSC? Anong taon po yun?

Atty. Literal: Mga 2022 po yun.

SRH: Just last year, sir?

Atty. Literal: Yes, ma'am.

Chair Cynthia: Can you give us the papers?

Atty. Literal: Yes, ma'am ... We will submit yung proforma MOU you resquested earlier and also these clearances from Marina, Coast Guard, and NSC. We will submit madame Chair.

....

SRH: Doon sa mitigation hierarchy, kung umabot po sa punto na hindi mamitigate to a satisfactory degree yung harms at walang compensation na makukuha na katumbas o lampas sa harms, kasama po ba sa hierarchy to stop and shelve the projects?

Sec. Loyzaga: There could be an instance where, in fact there could be no compensatory action that will be available, at which point and this is the reason we are an evidence-informed process, we do understand that there are social and economic benefits for example that may be weighed against the costs. These are decisions that would be made by a higher authority than ourselves in terms of the development planning priorities of the country. Recommendatory basis for whether something should be stopped or minimized will be established by the science that we will do.

SRH: The Department could recommend to the higher authority or to the President not to continue with or to stop the project? And it would be up to him to make the final decision?

Sec. Loyzaga: There could be an instance po that in fact such a recommendation could be put forward. We do need to conduct the study in order to establish that.

...

SRH: Ano po yung status ng reclamation projects in other parts of the country? Halimbawa Palawan kasi nakikita ko po dito yung Sagip coron.

Atty. Literal: Backgrounder lang po sa Palawan project. It's a project of the provincial government. Actually it's a 50-hectare project. The first 10 hectares was already completed and then po yung remaining po ngayon is the 40 hectares, however, during the pandemic time, there was an activity and about 22 hectares were completed but nagkaroon po ng problem with the ECC compliance and wala pang area clearance during that time so nakaabot po kay President Duterte during that time yung issues ng Palawan, Coron to be exact. And based on the meeting in 2022, there was a directive from the President to forfeit, to stop the reclamation, and rehabilitate and make it green again. After that, the ECC issued on that project was cancelled and until now the forfeiture issued by PRA is still standing and effective.

SRH: Salamat, Atty. Literal. That's one good news to emerge so far in the hearing at sana during the hearing makarinig din tayo diretso mula sa Sagip Coron, kasi shocking marinig ng kahit sinong Pilipino na may reclamation sa Palawan, sa Coron. So this is one good news po kung ganito po ang status and we can ask Sagip Coron to validate or to correct as necessary during the hearing, I hope we can do that.

Senator Koko Pimentel: Once upon a time nabigyan ng mga permits yan? Notice to proceed ganon?

SRH: Nabigyan for 50 hectares and a total of 22 hectares had been completed during that time ... Paano po naka-obtain ng approval for reclamation sa Coron, in the first place? Kasi ang pinupuntahan naman ng mga domestic and foreign tourists sa Coron ay yung karagatan nila, yung mga kasalukuyang isla, hindi naman po yung mas malaking mga lupa, so paano po naka-obtain ng approval for reclamation in Coron in the first place?

Kasi siguro the fact na nakapag-reclaim ng dagdag pa na total of 22 hectares dahil may nasimulang sampu, paano po nakakuha ng pag-apruba para dun sa unang sampu?

Atty. Literal: Yung first 10 po ng province nag-apply po yung province under a regulation wherein they have already started so nagkaroon po ng post compliance. What happened is, yung term po namin dito ay regularization, because public funds po ang ginamit and then they have complied, submitted the necessary permits and documents.

SRH: Pero after the fact na po? Post-compliance. So hindi sila sumunod kahit sa mga rules ng reclamation?

Atty. Literal: Ito po yung next function ng PRA. Marami po kasing illegal and unauthorized nationwide. So ito po yung nagiging ano.. especially po kapag government project and funded by public funds, we have to go through the process of regularization. Ang problem lang po natin dito kasi during that time they even want to secure a title over it pero may moratorium po si DENR not to process a titling and proclamation on the entire Palawan province.

SRH: So rineclaim na nga na hindi sumusunod sa rules ng PRA, gusto pang i-title. Parang China. Nag-iimbento ng artificial islands sa West Philippine Sea, mimilitarize nila, sasabihin nilang kanila yun. I'm glad to hear from PRA na sabi niyo mismo, maraming ilegal at unauthorized na reclamation around the country at yun yung tinitignan po nung aming inquiry o imbestigasyon kasi kung may parang original sin doon sa unang sampung hectares sa Coron eh kaya nagkaroon ng platform on which to further reclaim a total 22 hectares at may target palang kabuoang 50 hectares, so actually sir, salamat. Kaya lumalabas po kung regularization, nilelegalize yung mga illegal reclamation. Ano po yung legal basis ng ganon? Ng regularization o pag-legalize ng mga illegal na actions?

Atty. Literal: Basically it came from PD3-A. Again, we're talking of forfeiture. So ang process po kasi ng forfeiture is not just getting back, it's also doing the titling in favor of the national government. However, there's a situation just like the one in the 10-hectare ng Coron na wherein the illegal and/or unauthorized reclamation was funded by public funds or by the province so ang nangyari po dito since it's already government narin po, what we need to do is to have all the documents all the studies submitted para po ma-ensure namin that this property na illegal and unauthorized before would be complying with the requirements po ni PRA.

SRH: Ewan ko po kung parang government would thus be just making the best of a bad situation. Medyo masakit paring pakinggan na ok dahil ginamit ang public funds na galing sa buwis ng mamamayan, hawak natin sa gubyerno, pero ginamit sa iligal, sa unauthorized, so aayusin nalang. So, I understand logically bakit ganyan ang isang option pero baka there can be more options, better options generated by PRA and our other government agencies, otherwise, baka ma-encourage lang yung iba dun na ganun ding route ang dadaanan. Magrereclaim sa Coron at iba pang lugar, and then sasabihin nila, anyway kasi public funds ang ginamit, aayusin na yan ng local and national governments down the road. So gusto po nating maiwasan yun at maparusahan po yung ganon.

Makakabalik ako dun sa mga punta niyo kanina, mga tanong ko po about Chinese involvement and other issues sa PRA. Sabi niyo nga po nakapagsubmit naman na itong CCCC, yung Chinese state-owned contractor, nakapagsubmit ng documents from Marina, Coast guard, NSC, as late as last year. Nakakagulat. Ibig sabihin ang haba talaga ng pisi ng Coast Guard na hanggang ngayon halos araw-araw hinaharass ng Tsina sa West Philippine Sea and despite the fact that NSC itself has said na yung primary national security concern ng ating bansa ngayon ay Tsina sa West Philippine Sea. So ang haba talaga ng pisi nating mga Pinoy but actually even before the US Embassy complained, marami na tayong mga Pilipinong ahensya at mamamayan na nagrereklamo.

Sabi niyo nga po gumagawa ang PRA ng risk management, magbubuo po kayo ng bagong rules, we look forward to seeing those. Sabi niyo po may condition na sa clearance na satisfactory na sa Philippine Navy, sa DENR-NCR, and that.. sabi pala ito ni Sec. Tony kanina there would be a modification of the government process for reclamation.

In another issues po, addressed to PRA, alam ba ng authority kung ilang Chinese workers ang ipinasok na nitong mga Chinese state-owned enterprises para magtrabaho sa mga proyektong ito? Itong reclamation projects? Kasi during his confirmation, the DND Secretary mentioned that the presence of Chinese workers in the Philippines is a security risk. So may mga measures po ba na ginagawa para i-monitor ang sitwasyong ito?

Atty. Literal: We require also the processing of the.. Dalawa po kasing work permit ang nangyayari sa foreign.. Example yung Chinese. There are expats, the technical people, that they secure from immigration a different set of work permit and there are also crew ng foreign vessels itong special permits na nagrerequire naman ng seaman's book processing so we're not privy to the requirements and siguro maam tama po kayo we should be updated on the number of foreign employers na na ano but again these are contractors po kasi na nasa side po ng JV. So we're just being furnished with the number but we will secure the exact number. But with respect to the processing of the permits, they pass through the.. aside from the special permit na namention ko dun sa vessel, but for the warm bodies, there are two work permits for one for the seamen or the crew and the others for the technical people doing the technical aspect of the reclamation.

SRH: Salamat Atty. na aalamin niyo ito dahil kahit joint venture ito pero dahil alam na po ng buong bansa natin na state-owned enterprise yan invovled in some of the reclmation projects, at the very least pwedeng maging mas proactive siguro ang PRA to exercise over a matter na flinag narin po ng DND Secretary.

Lastly, sa PRA, dito sa Chinese involvement, hindi ba parehong kumpanyang iyan na involved sa Samal-Island Davao City connector bridge project. I believe that there were some concerns that the landing point on the Samal side threatened the remaining live coral reef in the area. So alam po ba ng PRA ano na yung status ng mga coral reefs ngayon? At pano inaddress yung mga environmental concerns na iyon?

Atty. Literal: Ma'am we're not familiar with the Samal bridge project. But we understand that it's a Chinese contractor nga po and this bridge project has not been applied to PRA dahil wala naman siyang at this point na specific reclamation component, on the bridge, yan lang po ang alam namin po.

Sec. Loyzaga: Madam Chair, I just wanted to clarify the DENR's position on the Philippine Navy requirement. We are now reviewing all the conditions that have been attached to the ECC and the AC. And among these are in fact the compliance to the Philippine Navy's requirement. However, it is in the context of the additional context of the geostrategic concern that we are now recommending that in fact this be elevated not just to the Navy or any branch of service, but to the specific department, which is the Department of National Defense for clearance and the Department of Foreign Affairs as well.

SRH: Thank you, good secretary, Madam Chair. I really appreciate yung pag-angat ng department sa ganoong mga antas din, yung pag-oversight and regulate and correction if necessary nang ganitong, hindi lang environmentally, but gaya ng sinabi niyong geostrategically-sensitive na mga proyekto.

If I could move, Madam Chair, to the environmental impact and ask Dr. Rodolfo and Mr. Narod Eco some questions?

Dr. Kelvin Rodolfo, Narod Eco and Arlene Tengonciang have done extensive work on the effect of large-scale reclamation projects on the environment and coastal communities. Dr. Rodolfo even published a scientific paper on this subject. So kung matanong ko po sila, si Dr. Rodolfo, Sir Narod, si Ma'am Arlene, ano ang mga factors at considerations dapat aware kaming mga policymakers vis-a-vis itong mga large-scale reclamation projects?

(Presentation)

(End of first part of Q&A)

(Start of second part of Q&A)

SRH: Mayroon po bang no-go zones para sa reclamation? O kung bibigyan ng pagkakataon, ire-reclaim ba ng PRA yung buong Pilipinas?

Atty. Literal: Madam Chair, if I may. Pagdating po sa Manila Bay, we depend on the just formalized or approved Manila Bay Sustainable Development Masterplan. And under the masterplan, isa-scite ko lang po yung integrated coastal zone management framework na nag-identify po ng five zones.

Chair Villar: Who did that?

SRH: It was under an EO. This is with regards to the mandamus, ma'am. Ito po yung Netherlands, NEDA and DENR.

Chair Villar: It's a study daw by NEDA and the Dutch and it was never finished?

Atty. Literal: Ay, ma'am, finished na po siya.

Chair Villar: Pero in-accept ba yan? It's just your point of view. It was never accepted. We don't know about that.

Atty. Literal: Ma'am mayroon po kasi silang sinabi na protected area. And then there's a protect and restore existing ecosystem and there's another area which is a protected habitat area. And then there's a sustainable use area. And then there's an area which is a no-build zone area. And then there's also an area, yung sinasabi nilang outside of four zones which can be optimize the use of available resources for greater benefits. And the development projects within Zone 4 are allowed. This includes potential change of economic activities in favor of better economic and financial outcomes. Under this integrated coastal zone management framework, this area po na pwedeng i-develop, this will be under the mandates of the LGUs, DENR and PRA.

SRH: So sa limang-

Atty. Literal: Ma'am, I stand corrected, four zones pala siya.

SRH: Four zones na yung isa doon ang tawag ay no-build zone.

Atty. Literal: Ma'am mayroon kasing protected area na zone talaga.

SRH: Oo nga po. Yung una niyong binanggit, protected area at huling binanggit niyo ay no-build zone. Magkaiba po ba ito? Ito ba ay no-go zones for reclamation?

Atty. Literal: Ma'am i-check ko lang po yung exact term.

SRH: Madam Chair, the secretary would like to interject.

Sec. Loyzaga: Thank you, Madam Chair, Madam Senator. If we can have Undersecretary Jonas Leones comment on the study?

Usec. Leones: Good afternoon Madam Senator. Regarding sa masterplan indicated, mentioned by the PRA. With due respect po sa comment ng PRA, but the status of masterplan development initiated by NEDA with the Netherlands has not yet been adopted and finalized. So it still remains a draft. So the inter-agency task force still has to adopt the masterplan. So I think, being the case, we need to further review the masterplan, Madam Senator.

(...)

SRH: So yung huling follow-up ko na lang po dito, dahil yung Manila Bay Sustainable Development Master Plan ay hindi pa adopted ng inter-agency task force, so ibig sabihin po bang may possibility na may zones na ia-identify at ia-adopt na no-go zones for reclamation?

Sec. Loyzaga: Thank you, Madam Chair, Madam Senator. This is precisely why we need to conduct the cumulative impact assessment. There needs to be a scientific basis for us to support any recommendation on no-go or go zones. We understand that a good deal of work was put into the Manila Bay Sustainable Development Plan. However, since it was not accepted, we have taken the initiative to actually undertake the impact assessment ourselves.

Chair Villar: So it's subject to study?

SRH: Well, apparently, Madam Chair, kahit po yung not yet adopted masterplan, maari palang ma-supersede ng cumulative impact assessment study which will, sabi kanina. Within six months may nabubuo nang findings or recommendations? And then within a year po ba, kumpleto na?

Sec. Loyzaga: Not necessarily superseding po, Madam Senator. We hope there would be a way for us to see how both studies can actually be either be complementary or supplementary to each other. However, the cumulative impact assessment that will be conducted will be independent of the sustainable development master plan draft.

Chair Villar: Anyway, the questions of Senator Risa, can you please answer it whether we agree or not? Then you give us a copy of all the answers to the question para at least we can understand, we can read di ba? And even your study that is not accepted, maybe you can give us a copy para we can study it. Para kapag nagkaroon ng ano, medyo may alam na kami. Kasi sometimes, hindi namin alam kaya nagkakahirapan tayo.